Original LXSeries Forum

Hi Claude,

Just wondered, as a fully open-ended thought, do you think that there would be any room/possibility in your software model to record and apply fixture-independent effects?

i.e. something like:

1.Red to full
2.Red to nothing

or

1. Full Red
2. Full Yellow
3. Full Green
4. Full Cyan
5. Full Blue
6. Full Purple

or

some sort of Ballyhoo (a set of programmed moves for automated lights where the lights move randomly within a specific area or around a recorded base point)

... The idea being that one is able to create and add to a library of effects, and then just applies these effects to selected channels, as opposed to having to program fixture specific (and thus not re-usable) step-based effects...

I am aware that this might be a big task, just wanted to test the waters if this is something that you would be interested in .

Does anyone else out there have an opinion on this?

While the desired functionality seems clear enough, its not so apparent how it would actually work. So, before starting to try to design that, it would be good to hear from others about how they would envision something like this.

I know that this question went out to all the homies out there (not to me ), but since noone has voiced an opinion yet, here is one -

I could imagine, if we want to stay with the more familiar concept of step-based effects, to be using either a single or a cluster of exemplary instruments selected to create/model the steps of the desired effect, and then, when it comes to applying the effect to a selected (but potentially greater or smaller) number of channels (even of different instruments, but that might share some of the same sub-channels like "22 - red"), that one gets a chance to influence how the "scaling" and "phasing" of the application should work... i.e. lets say we have designed an effect over 3 fixtures that cycle through different colours, one could either imagine to "spread" this effect when applying the effect over 5 fixtures by interpolating the colours in between for fixture 2 and 4, or alternatively offer a "repeat" or "bounce" function to allow for i.e. 1-2-3-2-1 or 1-2-3-1-2 ... obviously it becomes important for this "fanning" in which order the fixtures have been selected.

An option that goes into a completely different (and, for LXConsole new area) would be to work with geometrical and/or mathematical patterns or functions to describe how an effect should behave, i.e. A) alternate between 2 states(i.e. full green and then full blue) in the shape of a sine or cos curve, B) move this moving light in a spiral/circle/square/random pattern around it's current position with a certain width and depth of movement)... with this more general, elegant approach, one would create effect descriptions that are more versatile and transferable to any number of channels.

Once again, just ideas, mostly harvested from other LX software implementations out there...

I can see that there is a lot of design and implementation work here, and to be sure, even being able to somehow A) copy and then B) batch selecting and batch changing specific affected fixtures in a recorded effect (i.e. in all its subs or cues) would be a limited though more static way of starting the re-usability of effects in LX Console - say, the original effect worked with 3 different fixtures A, B, and C, and I would be able to go into the effect and be able to say "Copy this effect for me, ALSO copy all the included subs/cues, and THEN, instead of affecting fixture A in this effect, please affect fixture D, instead of B E, and so on for all steps/subs/cues..."

There, my $0.02 ... I'll shut up now...

And, for everyone out there who is celebrating it - have yerself a Merry Little Christmas.

*sigh*... it looks like there ain't much interest in this... a bit of a shame, as it is something that really sets it apart (in my humble opinion) in its usability from many contemporary LX software, being bound to fixture bound, step based effects; mainly for the re-usability, but as well for the speed of entering effects...

Anyhow, please let me know if/when you decide to work on this particular subject ...

This is a good idea and can be very useful for concerts, disco etc.

I think the dynamic effects in avolite desks are a great model. It´s very easy with these to run a bunch of moving heads live when you have masters to control the effectdynamics.

And as more and more moving heads enter also the theatre stages, this is bound to come up sooner or later...

So, no Freddy, -you´re not all alone

I will try and have a look at those Avolite desks, I have been mainly confined to Jands Vista Byron, and ETC Ion/Element softwares, but anything with intuitive, reusable/transferable effects for LEDs and Moving Lights would be a welcome help, even if it wouldn't be exactly my personal flavour ...

I guess the trick/hope/challenge of adding to LXConsole show files is not to wreck the ASCII compatibility, right Claude?

Hi Claude, just checking if you had any further ideas on this?

Still waiting for other comments on what this would be used for and why it is needed. Something like this can certainly be on the project list. To make it worth the effort, the concept needs more information on how it would work (in general) so that its not just charging off in a direction that later proves more complex or unclear that it should have been.

In an overall sense, there are two classes of consoles, ones for live operation which tend to be effect oriented and ones for theatrical performance that are more about recording cues for repeated playback. LXConsole is a traditional theatrical oriented design and so live effect control is not, at least to this point, a central element. Hence, the low priority of this request. If there's more support here on the forum, it could move up the list...

Interesting thoughts on the topic! I guess as someone who has entered the professional theatre scene "on the eleventh hour" - only in about 2007, and with a strong focus on theatre, I have noticed that ETC (whose traditional theatre line consoles I would rather put into the latter of your two categories) have evolved to include sophisticated effect engines in their ION/ELEMENT lines - a move I would say is/was fuelled by the advent of more and more intelligent lights like movers and colour mixing fixtures.

In quite a few shows I worked on (not as LX, but most of the time as Video guy or stage managers), specifically as soon as you add ML and LEDs into the mix, the designers have chucked in a quick little chase here and there, a ballyhoo, and in a recent show that I worked on, I was reminded on how time consuming it is to do anything that involves many (staggered) fixtures and/or sophisticated sequences in step-based effects.

However, your approach is of course a prudent one, not to go into the wrong direction, finding out what people want first. I am surprised that there hasn't been more call for it .

I'd also like to add my interest in an advanced effects engine. 99% of the musicals i design these days use parameter based effects.

Perhaps a starting approach would be a mathematical effects engine like the 1st Generation Martin MaxXYZ consoles. Select your Subchannel, then apply a wave generator (Sine, Cosine, Square, Saw) which can then scale in amplitude and speed.

A good suggestion "mysecretstache".

A simple chase speedmaster could be useful as well.

Another option that could be combined with either method could be a "meta"-effect editor; meaning a place to store effect templates (i.e. as suggested formulas for waves, but also steps etc), and then these recipes can generate/update the already implemented step-based effects in a show file dynamically...

Might sound convoluted, but that way the format of show files could stay pretty much the same, except that in the cues/subs that are part of a generated effect there would have to be a field that could tie them to the effect generator that created them for later updating.

I have a show coming up in late July where some implantation of our musings would come in very handy... would this be a realistic horizon?

Work on a wizard for creating preset based effects as a way of helping set up chases and the possibility of adding a dynamic effect to controlling pan/tilt of a channel are on the list. There are a lot of projects on the list. So, there's no particular time frame. But, hopefully, there will be some time to make progress on those things this summer.

The latest build of LXConsole (8811.1) includes support for channel based effects. These are similar but more portable than the original preset based effects (which are still available).

If you setup one of these effects, you can later move it and assign different channel numbers without re-visiting the step levels. There is even a shortcut command to change the base channel number. So, for example, if you have a chase that operates on a sequence of 4 channels, you don't even have to change all four channel numbers, you can just enter the lowest channel and the rest will be sequenced for you.

This portability makes it possible to build a library of effects and just assign them to channels as needed. This new 8811.1 version has a few example effects built into its library and so you can easily look at them to see how the new effects can be used. By exporting effects to the default location in your user library, you can add your own effects that can be used as easily as the built-in ones.